From: elfbiter	Date: January 20th, 2006 12:48 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Actually, when they mentioned ancient times at all, they concentrated on the claims of Roman origin, since in average they did not even know what Troy was.

	From: bunrab	Date: January 20th, 2006 07:21 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I'd have to agree with you - I doubt they know what Troy was. I suspect American schools teach little or no Greek history or mythology any longer.

	From: angevin2	Date: January 21st, 2006 02:00 am (UTC)		(Link)

On the contrary! The story of Troy, or at least some form of it, was very well-known -- while even the most well-educated medieval European wouldn't have read Homer, he would certainly have read Virgil, and there are numerous significant medieval texts on the subject: Benoit de Ste-Maure's twelfth-century Roman de Troie, Guido del Colonne's thirteenth-century Latin translation of Ste-Maure, the Historia Destructionis Troiae; and in the fourteenth century there's Boccaccio's Il Filostrato, and Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde. Few of these texts other than Chaucer are much read today, but they do show that the Matter of Troy was a significant part of the medieval literary scene.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: January 21st, 2006 04:32 am (UTC)		(Link)

VL, Lea knows more history than any sane person. Be very careful, or she'll tell you about it ;) She has a tendency to assume that the rest of the world is as intelligent as she is, and once in a while must be reminded that the rest of us are often baffled. It's sweet of her to start from the assumption that we are smart and just need to be reminded of all that stuff, though!

	From: angevin2	Date: January 21st, 2006 08:29 am (UTC)		(Link)

Erm, thank you, anonymous person? ;)

	From: bunrab	Date: January 20th, 2006 07:19 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I did not know that, Lea.

(Do you often find that people say that to you in a slightly stilted or strangled tone, while backing away slowly? That's because they're thinking "No sane person remembers that kind of stuff. Maybe if I speak slowly and back away, I can get away before I trigger something even worse!" :D )

Honest, I had never heard that legend, and I'm a decently educated person, so I have to doubt that the average high school group naming a team is familiar with it either. So I bet they're just imitating someone else who was imitating someone else, going back to when people *did* know that legend; the modern bunch probably has NO idea who or where or what Troy was.

Incidentally, I just read somewhere that they've found the real Ithaca. It's nowhere near the modern Ithaki. (And let's not be distracted by jokes about upstate New York.)

	From: angevin2	Date: January 21st, 2006 02:02 am (UTC)		(Link)

So I bet they're just imitating someone else who was imitating someone else, going back to when people *did* know that legend

Yeah -- that's basically what I was suggesting. As you say, the claim made to Trojan descent by medieval European nations is no longer common knowledge, but if one studies medieval and Renaissance literature one will have the Matter of Troy beaten into one's head the moment one encounters the Knight's Tale or Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

And yes, people say that to me all the time. ;)

	From: bunrab	Date: January 21st, 2006 04:36 am (UTC)		(Link)

Must go back and re-read Knight's Tale. It has been, um, several decades... No idea where my copy is, but hmmm, this would be a good excuse to go down to the LOC and read it in Middle English - I've only ever gotten to read the Prologue and the Wife's Tale in the original before, everything else in the usual translation. So there's a project. Perhaps next week, when spousal unit is attending a 3-day long tuba conference near Washington. I am going with him, but I'm not certain I can stand 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. of tuba music for three days running, so a break to run over to the Library would be good.